I decided to spend some time this week with the Lord alone to let Him teach me more about Mars Hill. Since so many are fighting for the right to gain common groud with everyone, to bring the culture into the Church in hopes that an unbeliever will be attracted to what WE offer, I felt it was time to come with my heart and mind open and let the Lord speak to me. I asked the Lord to show me, if these guys are right, if they are only doing what Paul did and it is pleasing to you Lord then show me so that I may stand in unity with them. I am in no way above being corrected. In fact, I would rather the Lord correct me now, before it is to late, so that I can get back on the straight and narrow path. I admit, before I got alone with the Lord to look at this scripture, I had no real answers. I only knew that what these guys defend and teach, even when I worked on staff with them in the Church, was not right. I would like to share with you what the Holy Spirit taught me this week.
So my question to the Lord was, since Rob Bell and all these other men use Acts 17 to justify finding common ground for the sake of advancing the true gospel of Jesus Christ, are we seeing the exact same method and result that Paul saw? Are we ending up bringing in strong, true believers for Christ? To find out we must test Mr. Bells and others methods to scripture. Not to our own opinions, or likes and dislikes, only to scripture! So here I will begin to share with you what the Holy Spirit taught me based on my time with our Lord.
As we begin in verse 16 we see that Paul is greatly distressed by all the idols that have filled the city. Now if you are a true believer you can already begin to relate to Paul here. As a true believer of Jesus Christ, Paul surely had to feel distressed by all the false religious idols and worship he saw. I know that I do. Now it is here that I would begin to wonder then, how will Paul handle this distress? Will he overlook it? Maybe he would turn to meditation and yoga to ease the stressful feelings he is having inside. Maybe he will find that he is just being to negative and critical of someone else’s religion. (Those are all things our world would tell us we should do.) Or maybe, it will stir up such a passion for these lost people that Paul will begin to preach the truth in the marketplace to these people. I will go with the last one for Paul. Now as Paul does this, a group of Epicurean and Stoic philosophers began to dispute with him. The first thing I note here is that it is the unbelievers that dispute with Paul here, not those “within” the Church of Christ. If Paul were finding some common ground, if he were saying things that were somewhat acceptable to these men, I find no reason for them to dispute with him. Just the fact that they call him a “babbler” shows their animosity towards him. They had no understanding of what Paul was preaching about. And it is not Paul that goes and seeks them out to find some common ground with them that he may try to convert them. No, it is they that seek Paul out and take him to the Areopagus. Now just the fact that they are easily irritated shows why they would bring Paul here to try and debate with him. What pride! Note that Paul is not on trial here, he can come and go at his own free will. But Paul is now prepared to go speak to these unbelievers about the One true God. Once I get to verse 21 I am instantly thrown into our modern day emerging/seeker movement. Was it Paul (the true Christian) that spent all his time talking about and listening to the latest ideas? Did Paul just have conversations for the sake of conversing about new ideas and re-inventing Christianity? Or does that sound like the the group of pagens meeting at Mars Hill? Read the verse and you decide. You must dear friend, for in our Laodicean church day it will be one group or the other that you will follow.
Next, in verse 22 we see Paul starting off by calling these men’s attention to their objects of worship. Paul says, “I see that in every way you are very religious”. The correct interpretation is “superstitious”. Now I know many try to distort this and turn it into “complimentery Paul”, but that could not be further from the truth. All orginial versions hold to the greek word deididaimonesteros for this scripture, which you will find when you look it up means “superstitious”. It is the greek word threskeia that means “religious”, and that is not used in this scripture. It would seem to me, that if Paul wanted to find some common ground to just build relationships on, he would have started out on a more complimentary term. Maybe he could have tied in some things he liked about their worship or their idols. Maybe found some type of agreement with their teachings and pointed out that their religion had some forms of truth that pointed to Jesus. Then Paul would have been more like the men of our day, (a little more inclusive). Of course he would never do that so Paul draws their attention to the “Unknown God” that they worship. What they worship as unknown, he will now take the opportunity to reveal to them.
Verse 24 “The God who made the world and everything in it is the Lord of heaven and earth and does not live in temples built by hands. I find it interesting that the Lord has Paul first start off by revealing to these men that He is the Creator. Now what Paul was having to do at Mars Hill, the angel of the Lord was having to do for John with the Church of Laodicea (our current day Church). Notice in Rev 3:14 that Christ announces Himself in the same way. Why is this? Because just like these “talkers” in our midst today, the men of Athens were so focused on the things of nature (creation) rather than the true Creator. No doubt that just as Paul had to introuduce Christ to the men at Mars Hill this way, so Christ had to introduce Himself to the Church of Laodicea that way. So again I ask you, when we compare ourselves to Paul (the true believer) or the pagans, who do these men today and their followers remind you of? Would Paul have fought for climate change and evolution? Did he take up their causes and give a hearty agreement to their concerns? Or would he have been more concerned with pointing these debaters to the true Creator, the Lord of Heaven and Earth? Reread the scripture to answer that question. Then ask yourself the question, are you becoming more like Paul or these men in your new church movement? (Of course this in no way implies that we are not to be good stewards with what the Lord does give us.) Verse 25 And he is not served by human hands, as if he needed anything, because he himself gives all men life and breath and everything else. Paul would have easily dismissed here all of the pagan liturgical and temple activities these men had. They are useless when it comes to our meeting God. The Lord does not need us to do anything for Him, as if he is dependent upon our help. But He did choose to save those who would accept Him and follow after Him and obey Him. Yet if Paul is speaking against a system of works (not obedience) here, I would say all of the extra “experiences” we try to incorperate so that man can draw closer to God will not work. Since this is so much of what the seeker/emerging church draws on, I would again want to see is this what Paul did as he witnessed to these men? Or is this what these pagans were already doing that he was speaking out against? If so, who are you becoming more like in your new church movement? In verse 27 Paul declares that “God did this so that men would seek him and perhaps reach out for him and find him, though he is not far from each one of us.” Greek myths taught that a god could be found after a spiritual struggle or mystcial quest. Yet Paul states that God is near us and wants us to know the truth and turn to Him. There is no secret way to Jesus. Yet many in the emerging/seeker movement would want you to take a journey “into the mystic”. They want your life to be about a journey or quest so that then you can know God. Paul never teaches that. In fact he states quite the opposite. He says that God is already near us. I have no doubt that is why Paul had to warn as he pointed forward to our day about these false teachers in 1 Tim 4:7 Have nothing to do with godless myths and old wives tales, rather, train yourself to be godly. So again I ask you as I asked myself, in doing these things that these new movements are teaching and allowing, are we becoming more like Paul, or simply following what the pagans were already doing? No doubt as you read scripture, Paul was speaking against these things and pointing them to the truth. He took their “worldview” and turned it towards and ‘Biblical view.” Ahhh! Now for the famous verse 28. “For in Him we live and move and have our being. As some of your own poets have said, “We are his offspring” Paul is quoting Arastus, a stoic poet from Cilicia here. Arastus wrote in a poem to Zeus that “we to are his offspring”. Many could try to argue and defend for their belief that Paul was showing that he stood in agreement with their writers, that we ourselves are free to use the writings of other pagan religions. But as I studied with the Lord he has shown me otherwise. First of all, Paul was not drawing these men into a meeting with fellow believers. He was not quoting this writer to teach the current belivers something about the Lord they were already following. Never do I see Paul taking these relavent culture idols and beliefs INTO the church to draw them in. He does speak with them where they already are though. Secondly, Paul never stands in agreement with the writer, he only points out the obvious. He actually calls out the contradiction within their own movement and belief system. Their own writers say “We are his offspring”. As we see within the scriptures that follow, Paul points out their ignorance in this former way of thinking. I see it this way, (if we want to put it into modern terms). I don’t have to agree with secular scientists and their theories of evolution and global warming to point out the fact that even some of their own colleagues argue against them in saying there are no facts to show evidence of global warming or that there are holes in the evolution theory. I can point to their inconsitancies among their own field to show them why there is no inconsistencies in the Creator of this world. I would in no way give any compliment to their way of thinking or even try to find some truth to stand in agreement with. In fact, like Paul I would say, that in the past God overlooked this ignorance, but now He has sent His Son Jesus Christ, creator of Heaven and Earth to reveal to us the truth. We have no more excuses!
Verse 29 says “Therefore since we are God’s offspring, we should not think that the divine being is like gold or silver or stone-an image made by man’s design and skill. Paul argues here against man’s design and plans. When we try to re-invent or re-create anything it only leads to false worship and another Jesus. It amazes me that the leaders today want to re-invent the Church to fit what they feel is true “relationship” with Jesus. Did Paul teach as these men today teach that we can re-think who God is? Or did he teach us that we should NOT THINK that God is like any image that man tries to create or design. Don’t fool yourself into thinking that an image can only be a statue. An image is whatever you create in your own mind and decide to follow after. We all better test it back to scripture through prayer. So are we standing with Paul and becoming more like what he taught or are we becoming more like the pagans and their way of thinking? As an interesting side note, I found in my studies that Epicureans would be likened to, what we call today, secular humanists. A man by the name of Dr. Bernard Ramm wrote a book entitled, The Right, the Good and the Happy.(Waco, Word Books 1971) This was the belief of Epicureans. In his book he maintains: that the only life is this life, the only values are now values, and the only goods are this life’s goods. (page 78). If I could put that in modern day terms (since this seems to be the relevant thing to do, it would sound a little like this), The epicurines focused on the journey here and now, in this life. The destination did not matter. All that mattered for them was the next step, doing what they believed was morally right in the here and now. Enjoyment of life and being happy. Yet this pagan belief system sounds so familier to me. As if I have heard our own men within the Church state these very things, (only in modern terminology). Surely if they are going to change scripture to fit the current culture terminology, it would only seem fitting that they would change the pagan terminology to fit our current culture. The other side note I found of interest and almost to familer once again, was the fact that Epicureus who was the founder and leader of this group had little patience with “Religion”. Of course I can see why they would rebel against this word now. He spent his time and teaching helping people lose their fear of the gods. In modern day terms in might have sounded something like this “The gods are not angry”. And Epicurus was an early thinker, developing the notion of justice as a social contract. A “social gospel”. How ingenious. It seems to be a constant reminder to me that there is “Nothing new under the sun”. No new idea. No new revelation. Only the absoulte truth of the Word. And there is no doubt that when you stand for that truth, just as in Paul’s day, there will be many who sneer at you, many who just long for the debate and entice you with their echo’s of “I want to hear you again on this subject”. But the good news is, there will be those who hear what the Lord is saying in these last days and they will become true followers of Jesus Christ. So then my friends, the only question for you and I is which group will find ourselves in? What will you find when you make a visit to Mars Hill? Have you come away changed by Paul’s message and met the true Jesus Christ? Or have you just been converted by the pagan philosophers in disguise? As Paul says, Examine yourselves and see if you are in the faith. Do not accept another Jesus, or I fear as Paul said in that same chapter of Acts, that on that set day when God will judge the world with justice by the man he has appointed, you my dear friend may find you had never met him.
So what did I find? That today at Mars Hill I met Greek philosophers masquerading as ministers of rightousness.
Even though this is a thoughtful and thorough reply to the inconsistencies we see within the emerging/seeker churches, they won’t buy it.
They seem beyond redemption, they really do.
How can you repent if you are always right about everything? If you have no faults? ‘Judge’ no one? Accept everything and everyone, from sinner to saint? Well, almost everyone.
They don’t accept correction, because they are never wrong. Especially if you use the Bible. Even if you did, they will twist the scripture to suit them.
They are eternally lost. If they have no desire for repentance now, which only God can grant, then they are lost.
This is the falling away generation spoken of in 2 Thess 2v3.
I’m convinced of that. It had to happen.
Here it is.
God bless.
I sat at coffee last night with a bible college student of mine and told him that at this point in life, I don’t have time to waste anymore with Christians who are set on pointing out the flaws of other Christians and making it their aim to speak “prophetically” against whatever their punching bag for the day is (in your case emergent/seeker/Rob Bell). Rather, I choose to surround myself with people who are willing to create imaganitive new ways in expressing the Kingdom of God in the world we find ourselves in. So with that said, I can’t believe I am responding to your post and the response to it.
It wasn’t your limited prooftexting that drew me to respond, which we could argue back and forth endlessly and who wants to do that. Rather, I think I am responding because I felt a deep sadness when I read Doreen’s last words in her response.
To quote:
“They are eternally lost. If they have no desire for repentance now, which only God can grant, then they are lost.
This is the falling away generation spoken of in 2 Thess 2v3.
I’m convinced of that. It had to happen.
Here it is.
God bless.”
You use such strong language – “eternally lost” and “falling away”, to describe those who, according to your scriptures, you are asked to love. And yet, your flippant tone doesn’t match the words you throw out – “It had to happen” as in, “Oh well”.
This is how I know you don’t truly believe what you said. Because if you did, if you truly believed they were eternally lost, the sheer gravity of that statement would have demanded deep sorrow and brokenness from you, not a, “It had to happen. Here it is. God bless.”
May God give each of you the wisdom to know when to be quiet and reflect on the things you are saying you believe.
Doreen,
I know what you are saying and I agree that this is most certainly the falling away. And I would agree, if they have no desire for repentance or to love the truth then they will be forever lost. But my prayer is, that many of them will see and turn from these myths. I at one point, being on staff at a church with these false teachings could have been so easily led astray. But I also must remember, I don’t write for these guys. I don’t go to their sites looking for them and like Paul I would never continue a debate with them when they sneer or say “I want to hear you on this again”. I write for those like me who could be so easily decieved by thier lies. That those who are truly wanting to know the Lord who is close to them. Thank you for continuing to discern in these last days and may we remember to continue to pray for all those who are turning away.
And in regards to your comment Jason. You are correct in saying I will not argue with you. Once again the spirit that leds this movement reveals itself to me. Just as at Mars Hill, Paul does not go looking for them to argue and debate, yet they do come to him, irritated by what he is preaching. I will continue to stand in the marketplace and point as many as the Lord allows, to the truth of Jesus Christ and who He really is. Please note, that I do not “judge” you as a person, only the teachings you claim to follow. That I am allowed to do, but only God is the judge of man.
Jason
Why are you responding, or even reading, any of these posts?
Puzzling.
Scripture has to happen, it has to be fulfilled.
Back in the 80’s I watched a film on prophecy that said 85% of Bible prophecy had alreay been fulfilled. That was about 25 years ago.
So how much has been fulfilled since then.
No one on earth has the power to stop Bible prophecy being fulfilled. No one.
If you don’t like what I said, there is nothing I can do about it. And I stand by what I said.
As much as people want to change the Bible for it to mean what they want it to mean, they cannot. To do so is self-deception. As with the Jehovah Witnesses who say there is no hell.
Enough said.
Stephanie,
The apostle Paul asks a question in Galatians 4v16, ‘Have I therefore become your enemy because I tell you the truth?’
Truth and lies are enemies. It is so obvious it seems ridiculous to say it. But, they are.
You are very gracious in the way you give the truth of the matter, and have an ardent zeal for the truth. Many are not like that in this day and age. And since there is nothing new under the sun, none of us should be surprised at what is taking place.
When one reads the book of Jeremiah, we see it happening all around us.
As the word of God says, judgment begins at the house of God, 1 Peter 4v17.
Keep up the good work.
God bless.
Stephanie,
Great article. I don’t think that you are using Rob Bell as a “punching bag.” You don’t attack him personally. You do attack his message, which is a valid thing to do. You are pointing out where he is straying from biblical teaching. This is something that Paul did in all his letters.
May the Lord richly bless your ministry. May He make His face shine upon you and your family. Lord, I pray that you protect Stephanie and keep her rooted in your truth as she speaks out against apostasy in these last days.
Maranatha!
Stephanie,
Sister, I DEARLY appreciate your exegesis of Acts, as well as your clear understanding of the historical context into which Paul walks in Chapter 17 – Not many *pastors* these days know anything of Epicureanism and Stoicism, let alone laypeople!
By God’s grace (alone – for what do you have that you have not received?), you are a credit to your earthly husband (as well as to our heavenly Husband!) May he praise you in the gates!!!
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I’m so glad that though you’ve hinted at having worked for Mars Hill Bible Church in the past, by God’s incredible grace, He has chosen to deliver you from there – in both building and doctrine! Praise be to God for *every* person He rescues from that black pit in Grandville…
I hope you and your family have found a new (& safe!) church home… Members of the Body of Christ need the rest of the Body to live: a call to faith in Christ is a call to live in light of that faith *in community* with your brothers and sisters in the Lord
However, if you’ve not yet found a place of worship in the Grand Rapids area where Christ is honored and worshipped as Prophet, Priest, and King; where the whole counsel of God is preached soundly, lovingly, in the power of the Holy Spirt; and where God’s people aren’t afraid to tell you *exactly* what they believe concerning the Scriptures – then I warmly invite you to worship with us at Harvest Orthodox Presbyterian Church: http://www.harvestopc.org
…don’t let the word ‘Orthodox’ scare you – we’re not about Eastern Orthodoxy. Far from it! We are unapologetically Reformed in doctrine, holding to Scripture (obviously) as our primary standard (by which *everything* is to be judged!), and we believe the Westminster Confession of Faith to be a faithfully-exegeted systematic understanding of the Scriptures – though again, *not* inspired, and *not* in authority over the Bible!
Our denomination was born out of the controversy in what is now the PCUSA in the early 20th century: from their massive apostasy, God was pleased to preserve for Himself a remnant who, by His grace, still believed & proclaimed the great life-changing truths of the Scriptures. Ironically, the PCUSA’s great apostasy looks *remarkably* like the apostasy of our time: promoting social justice is lauded over warning sinners of Divine justice, inclusivism is lauded over Christ being exclusive, vain philosophy is lauded over clear Scriptural reasoning, feelings are lauded over faith in absolute facts, etc. I could go on and on…
God has graced us with a wonderful pastor, who is *keenly* aware of what is happening in the Emergent movement – he’s even had a review of Bell’s ‘Velvet Elvis’ published on Reformation21’s blog:
http://www.reformation21.com/Past_Issues/2006_Issues_1_16_/2006_Issues_1_16_Shelf_LIfe/February_2006/February_2006/148/vobId__2030/pm__338/
(sorry for the long URL)
Anyway, if you and your family have found a Christ-exalting, Bible-believing & proclaiming, gospel-preaching Church – full of believers who love and serve Christ and each other, please stay there!!! If, however, your family’s exodus from Mars Hill is recent enough that you still have no church body you can call ‘home,’ then I would be delighted if you would come worship the Lord with us
With much love and brotherly affection for you & your family,
~andrew
Andrew,
Thank you so much for your kind comments. I have never worked for Mars Hill Church though. My point was that though I have worked for the same type guys in these emerging/purpose driven churches in Florida, the Lord was gracious enough to open my eyes and speak to me that I might flee. I pray you and your family will continue to walk closely with our Lord and stand for His truth in these last days. May your Church continue to be a light in our dark world!
God bless you,
Stephanie
OOps
My misunderstanding! Honestly, I see so many in the Grand Rapids area flocking to Mars Hill that I get excited when I hear of someone being delivered from such a place. So excited, it seems, that I neglected to double-check & be sure I wasn’t about to invite a dear family of believers to undertake a 2-day drive to worship with us – whoops!
Oh well – we worship the LORD together – with all the saints past and present each and every Lord’s day. It is *one* Body in spirit even now, just as it ever shall be in body and spirit once this age comes to a close.
I give you Hebrews 12:18-29. May God write its eternal truth upon your & your family’s hearts
“…you have not come to what may be touched, a blazing fire and darkness and gloom and a tempest 19 and the sound of a trumpet and a voice whose words made the hearers beg that no further messages be spoken to them. 20 For they could not endure the order that was given, If even a beast touches the mountain, it shall be stoned. 21 Indeed, so terrifying was the sight that Moses said, I tremble with fear. 22 But you have come to Mount Zion and to the city of the living God, the heavenly Jerusalem, and to innumerable angels in festal gathering, 23 and to the assembly of the firstborn who are enrolled in heaven, and to God, the judge of all, and to the spirits of the righteous made perfect, 24 and to Jesus, the mediator of a new covenant, and to the sprinkled blood that speaks a better word than the blood of Abel.
25 See that you do not refuse him who is speaking. For if they did not escape when they refused him who warned them on earth, much less will we escape if we reject him who warns from heaven. 26 At that time his voice shook the earth, but now he has promised, Yet once more I will shake not only the earth but also the heavens. 27 This phrase, Yet once more, indicates the removal of things that are shaken—that is, things that have been made—in order that the things that cannot be shaken may remain. 28 Therefore let us be grateful for receiving a kingdom that cannot be shaken, and thus let us offer to God acceptable worship, with reverence and awe, 29 for our God is a consuming fire.”
This Lord’s Day, I pray that you and yours both appreciate and enjoy the REALITY that *every time* we meet together for corporate worship, in unshakably solid Biblical truth:
Our solemn assembly is bigger than Sinai, better than Sinai, more awesome and terrible than Sinai, more powerful than Sinai, more inclusive than Sinai, mediated through a better covenant than Sinai, through an infinitely better Mediator than Moses, where *all* of True Israel (the Church) may draw near to God Himself and not be put to death like those who would approach at Sinai, ***and all of this because we are washed clean by the sprinkling of an INFINITELY better blood than demanded by the covenant given at Sinai***
ENJOY your God!!!
May He add His blessing to His inerrant word,
~andrew